Doubting Thomas

No, not the biblical Thomas, he who had doubts. 

My doubts centre around Thomas O’Dea. 

He was a brother of my gt grandfather John who arrived in South Australia with his parents Patrick and Mary on the ship Time and Truth in 1854. On the passenger list, Thomas’ age is given as 21 which provides a birth estimate of 1833 or 32 depending on the date on which the list was assembled..

His brother John was listed as 19 and sisters Mary 17 and Margaret 8. 

I have plenty of DNA matches down the descendant lines from John, Mary and Margaret but at this stage none that I can identify as descendants of Thomas. Perhaps I have the wrong Thomas in my tree. Could it simply be that none of his descendants have taken a DNA test? Probably not. 

Back to the drawing board to investigate several of the other Thomas O’Deas who were in South Australia in the same period.

But which Thomas O’Dea is he? 

First step, I eliminated all the Thomas O'Deas who did not have a Patrick listed as father.

I eliminated those who were born too early or far too late to fit  a five year time frame of birth from 1829 - 1834 given that ages were often indeterminate on shipping, marriage and death records.

From 25 Thomas O'Deas  in South Australia, I was now down to a list of three.

First on the list is a Thomas O'Dea of Canowie who in 1881 was returning to his farm from Jamestown when he fell out of his cart and was killed. (1) He was listed as being 52 years old and married. This would put his birth about 1929. Reading other articles about the O'Deas at Canowie, three brothers are listed on adjacent farms, Patrick and John being the other brothers. 

Our Thomas did not have a brother Patrick and I know for certain that his brother John was living at Pinkerton Plains much further to the south.

The second Thomas under consideration died at the age of 45 in Adelaide in 1874. He was not married., and the land title later in this post eliminates him from consideration.

I am left with Thomas O'Dea who died in 1914.

This Thomas O’Dea married Bridget Hill in Kapunda on 4 November 1856 where Thomas was listed as age 24 with his bride 18. 

His obituary in 1914 records:

Mr. Thomas O'Dea, sen., an old resident farmer of the Terowie district, died recently at the age of 85 years. The deceased was born in Clare, Ireland, and arrived in South Australia about 60 years ago. From Bagot's Station he went to Pinkerton and Alma Plains, and engaged in farming operations. Thirty-seven years ago he took up land near Terowie, and later removed to Nackara, where he stayed until the death of his wife, 11 years ago, when he returned to Terowie and lived with his daughter (Mrs. T. O'Dea). About eight months ago he had an attack of paralysis, and had been an invalid ever since. Four sons and five daughters survive. (2)

• The Pinkerton Plains beginnings fit as his brother John moved there with his wife just after their marriage in 1863.
• Being in the colony for 60 years also fits the 1854 arrival.
• Age at death - 85, a small discrepancy. I have been unable to locate a birth record for him in County Clare.
• This land title places Patrick with his sons Thomas and John on a block of land of 81 acres, numbered 300 in the Hundred of Mudla Wirra in 1864. (Pinkerton Plains)

Further down the land title gt gt grandfather Patrick is listed as having died in June or July of 1867. 

According to the 1914 obituary above,  Thomas moved to Terowie with his wife Bridget and their growing brood of children about 1877. At that stage his brother John already had 5 children too, so more land would have been needed to support the growing families.  The last 4 children born to Bridget and Thomas have Terowie as their birth location, so perhaps the move was made in 1875.

The children of Thomas O'Dea and Bridget Hill

1. Margaret 1858 - 1938 married (another) Thomas O'Dea in 1878
2. Catherine Therese 1862 -1936 married Thomas Gabriel Fogarty in 1886
3. Bridget Rose 1864 -1918 married John Stephen Eddy in 1889
4. Patrick Henry 1867 - 1902 married Catherine Hegarty in 1891
5. Ellen  1869 - 1947 married Thomas O'Connell in 1890
6. Mary Anne 1871 - 1872
7. John 1873 -1923
8. Thomas Gerald 1875 - 1926 married Florence Lawn in 1911
9. Martin Vincent 1877 - 1935 married Esther Ruth in 1906
10. Frances Alice 1880 -1964 married William Edward Wilson in 1904
11. Michael Joseph  1883 - 1938

Their mother Bridget, Thomas’ wife died in 1902. 

O'DEA.—On 8th September, 1902, at Terowie, Bridget O'Dea, wife of Thomas O'Dea, near Nackara, aged 64 years—fortified by the last Holy Sacraments. R.I.P  (3)

If you are a descendant of any of the above mentioned and have taken a DNA test, I would be delighted to hear from you. Perhaps you may be a 3rd cousin if I have indeed identified the correct Thomas O'Dea. 

I have a condensed list of descendants with the names of any of the living removed for privacy if you are a descendant of this couple I am happy to share the information. Any errors are mine and I await correction by a diligent researcher.

I hope to have a DNA connection on this line to confirm whether I have identified the correct Thomas O’Dea. My contact details can be found on the About page.

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1. 1881 'JAMESTOWN, March 10.', South Australian Register (Adelaide, SA : 1839 - 1900), 11 March, p. 6. , viewed 23 Apr 2023, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43166366

2. 1914 'CONCERNING PEOPLE.', The Register (Adelaide, SA : 1901 - 1929), 20 May, p. 10. , viewed 23 Apr 2023, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article59400255

3.  1902 'Family Notices', Petersburg Times (SA : 1887 - 1919), 12 September, p. 2. , viewed 23 Apr 2023, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article124971283

This post first appeared on earlieryears.blogspot.com by CRGalvin

Using AI on a wedding report

I recently read this most interesting article by Steve Little about extracting details from text using AI https://asheancestors.org/2023/03/20/ai-and-genealogy-using-chatgpt-to-glean-info-from-obits-articles-and-announcements/

I copied Steve’s instructions then added the text from a marriage report found in Trove. 

Thomas William Meaney in this report lived from 1895 until 1957. His marriage to Nora Silvy as detailed below took place on the 7 August 1929. He is my second cousin once removed. Thomas and Nora are buried in the St John’s cemetery in South Australia.

Instructions to ChatGPT

Assume the role of an expert, professional genealogist. Consider the genealogically relevant information that might appear in a wedding announcement. Below is the OCR text (correct for spelling) of an announcement. I would like to know about the stated relationships between people in the text. When you can with certainty, state the relationship between two people in the article. in a markdown table use the form PERSON ONE : PERSON TWO : RELATIONSHIP : INFORMATION. (Where INFORMATION is the quoted text in the article describing the relationship between the two people.

At St. Rose's Church, Kapunda, the wedding was celebrated of Miss Nora Silvy, third daughter of Mrs. and the late Mr. J. Silvy, and Mr. Thomas Meaney, eldest son of the late Mr. and Mrs. John Meaney, of Freeling. The bride, who entered the church on the arm of Mr. William Silvy, her eldest brother, wore a frock of white crepe de chine trimmed with silver lace, her veil was worn cap fashion, trimmed with orange blossom, and she carried a bouquet of white and pink flowers with white streamers. Miss Mary Meaney (niece of the bride) was bridesmaid in a blue crepe de chine frock, with silver buckle, and posy on shoulder. She wore a silver head band, and carried a bouquet of blue and pink flowers and blue streamers. Father Bede officiated, and also played the wedding march. Mr. Lawrence Silvy (brother of the bride was best man. Mrs. Silvy (mother of the bride) wore a black coat and skirt with black hat to match. The bride and bridegroom left the church for the residence of the bride's sister (Mrs. J. Meaney) where the wedding breakfast was held. The toast of the bride, bridegroom, and bridesmaid and best man was proposed by Mr. N. Roberts, and the cake was cut by the bridegroom left the church for the residence of the bride's sister (Mrs. J. Meaney) where the wedding breakfast was held. The toast of the bride, bridegroom, and bridesmaid and best man was proposed by Mr. N. Roberts, and the cake was cut by the bride.

ChatGPT output

Person One	Person Two	Relationship	Information
Nora Silvy	J. Silvy (father)	Daughter	"Miss Nora Silvy, third daughter of Mrs. and the late Mr. J. Silvy"
Nora Silvy	Mrs. Silvy (mother)	Daughter	"Miss Nora Silvy, third daughter of Mrs. and the late Mr. J. Silvy"
Thomas Meaney	John Meaney (father)	Son	"Mr. Thomas Meaney, eldest son of the late Mr. and Mrs. John Meaney"
Thomas Meaney	Mrs. John Meaney (mother)	Son	"Mr. Thomas Meaney, eldest son of the late Mr. and Mrs. John Meaney"
William Silvy	Nora Silvy	Brother	"The bride, who entered the church on the arm of Mr. William Silvy, her eldest brother"
Mary Meaney	Nora Silvy	Niece	"Miss Mary Meaney (niece of the bride) was bridesmaid"
Lawrence Silvy	Nora Silvy	Brother	"Mr. Lawrence Silvy (brother of the bride was best man)"
J. Meaney	Nora Silvy	Sister-in-law	"The bride and bridegroom left the church for the residence of the bride's sister (Mrs. J. Meaney)"

From the given text, we can determine the following relationships:

• Nora Silvy is the daughter of J. Silvy and Mrs. Silvy.
• Thomas Meaney is the son of John Meaney and Mrs. John Meaney.
• William Silvy is the eldest brother of Nora Silvy.
• Mary Meaney is the niece of Nora Silvy.
• Lawrence Silvy is the brother of Nora Silvy.
• J. Meaney is the sister-in-law of Nora Silvy, as she is the wife of Nora's brother Thomas Meaney.

My thoughts

 The results clearly explain the relationships between the folks listed, however the text in red is an incorrect interpretation as the information highlighted in the table clearly states that Mrs J Meaney is the bride’s sister.

This was an interesting exercise for me but a reminder for me too, to always check the output of any AI tool or indeed any genealogical source. 

With AI tools already being used by the large genealogical record companies, it will indeed be interesting to observe how AI tools find their way into the everyday family historian’s toolbox. 

Gravestone of Thomas and Nora Meaney

This post first appeared on earlieryears.blogspot.com by CRGalvin